7 Deadly Sins Made by First-Generation Ranchers
Shaye Koester 00:02
Hey, hey, it’s Shaye Koester and I’m your host for the Casual Cattle Conversations podcast where we connect you to ranchers and beef industry enthusiasts who can help you build a more profitable operation and improve your lifestyle. Are you looking for a community of ranchers who support and challenge you to be more profitable and proactive? Then sign-up for our monthly RancherMind events. RancherMinds are mastermind events for ranchers to come together once a month and find solutions for their own and the industry's challenges. Stay connected by following @cattleconvos on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter and never miss an episode or event update by signing up for our newsletter on casualcattleconversations.com/newsletter. If you get value out of this episode or any episode drop a comment or tip me by using the link in the show notes. With that let’s see who our guest is today and connect you to a new resource to improve your own operation and lifestyle. Alrighty, thank you for hopping back on through the show today. I'm glad to have you on here. I'm glad you're listening and I am excited about this episode. Today we are visiting with Markie Hageman and she is a first generation rancher and advocate for our industry. She does an outstanding job of this and I actually have the pleasure of serving as an NCBA Trailblazer with her this year. So I'm excited about that and being a part of that program and getting to know more Markie even better. So with that, we're going to be talking about the Seven Deadly Sins of first-generation ranchers. I know it's gonna be an amazing episode because Markie just did an outstanding job, and offers so much input. So with that, let's get on with the episode. Well Markie, thank you for hopping on the show today. I know it's been so fun. We're here at NCBA right now #cattlecon, and have gotten the opportunity to speak on a panel together. We've been Instagramming back and forth for a few years. I know I've been following you. So it's just been a lot of fun. And I'm glad we finally got the chance to meet a little more.
Markie Hageman 02:23
Yeah, I'm excited that we actually got to meet in person and we'll be able to be on Trailblazers together, so it's gonna be fun. Like we're gonna be able to get to know each other better.
Shaye Koester 02:32
I'm glad they finally announced to the Trailblazers becasue it was absolutely killing me.
Markie Hageman 02:36
Yes!
Shaye Koester 02:38
Yeah, well, kind of leading into that. I know obviously, like talked about, we've discussed your background, but would you share with my listeners, you know, what is your background in ranching? What does that look like for you?
Markie Hageman 02:49
So I didn't come from ranching. I have people in my family who do raise cattle. My stepdad is one of them. My uncle's another one. But that is not anything that I had any involvement in growing up. I got involved in 2017 when I moved to be with my mom and my stepdad in Alabama, and they have cattle, and it's just a small, you know, commercial operation. I just started spending a lot of time with the cows, because why not, I lived right next to them. It was just really like interesting to me, because I didn't really know much about them. And I started advocating, just because I was around the cows and I knew my stepdad and how he handled his herd. Then I decided I want to do this, like I really love this. And so, in 2020, I bought my first heifers. Then last Christmas, we had our first calves. So that's been exciting.
Shaye Koester 03:49
Yeah, so awesome. It's really neat to see how that how your interest was sparked and how you've like grown from there. And a little bit about your advocacy. So what really, what really made you feel called to start that advocacy page?
Markie Hageman 04:02
Well, I was always like, I mean, I had MySpace back in the day. I've always been like pro social media, just because I don't know why it's just something my personality is attracted to. When I lived in Alabama, and I started kind of realizing what ranchers and just agriculture in general was facing. I thought I'm really good with social media. Well, I mean, I was good at that time. I've grown a lot. But you know, then I was like, I can be that voice. I have the ability to tell a story. I have the ability to want to put myself out there. I know a lot of people in the industry are scared too and I totally get that. I mean me putting myself out on my @girlseatbeeftoo page is terrifying. There are times when I'm like why did I post that? But I think overall it's been really good because I've been able to help other people tell their stories and I've been able to like show different perspectives. So I just think my personality type and just my strengths within social media drew me to that. And it's kind of given me a purpose rather than just like posting, you know, stupid updates about like everything else in my life that's really mundane.
Shaye Koester 05:15
Absolutely. Well, I know, I enjoy following it. And you've built up an outstanding followership and are Advocate of the Year. So that is just amazing. But we're gonna focus this conversation a little bit more about your experience as a first generation rancher and really talk about, you know, the Seven Deadly Sins of what you shouldn't do when you're that first generation rancher and what that looks like. We've talked about this before and one of the points that you brought up was, when you listen to other people's advice, instead of what's doing best for your operation.
Markie Hageman 05:49
Yeah, so I've been experiencing this a lot lately. That's really like, that's why I put it as the first one. Because that's like, really on my heart right now. I post a lot about my calves and my experiences with the things I'm doing for the first time, like the first time I had to vaccinate a calf, like, it was just terrifying, and different things that I'm having to learn as I go. A lot of people have unsolicited advice. I try to be so grateful about it, because people who have experience and have knowledge, you know, want to help me. But at the same time, I do feel like, I have to figure it out on my own, I have to learn what works best for me. A good example of that is the other day, we had a heifer calf who I needed to give her a shot of antibiotics and she was not easy to handle. We have a chute but my fiance isn't as comfortable, you know, handling the animals, and I'm definitely not strong enough to handle them on my own. So, you know, I just showed a video of like me trying to do that, and me trying to work through that process. And I just got flooded with people messaging me like, this is why you need to do this, this is why you should do this. Instead of them understanding the actual situation, they saw one instant, one thing, and they didn't know, this is how I problem solved. This is what I did. Instead, I tried this, it didn't work. Here's what I ended up doing. And this is why I can't do what you're telling me to do. So I think with first generation ranchers, beginners, in anything, you have to realize, like, yeah, there are people who have done it. They know what they're doing. They are great at what they're doing, but when you're starting out, and you're limited, and you're still trying to figure it out, you can take their advice with a grain of salt, and then say that this is what I'm going to do instead. If you're constantly like listening to what other people are telling you to do, then you're never going to figure it out on your own, you're going to always have to like rely on other people, and you're going to have a hard time problem-solving. Personally, that's me. So I think that you take the mentors that you have, you take your vet, you take the professionals, and you listen to them. But when it's like everyone else, it's like I always tell people, I compare it to like mother in law's like, trying to tell you how to raise your kids, like, whatever they know, they have good advice. That doesn't mean you have to listen to it. Listen to the people that you trust and they will have the discussion with you.
Shaye Koester 08:28
I think that's really important that you brought up how important it is to problem solve. That's something that as you work into ranching, or any business or whatever you're doing, you need to work on becoming more independent in your thinking and thought process. Because there's so many ways of doing something and you look at ranching, and how you even have spread throughout the country, let alone the world, how different regions require different practices. It's honestly a beautiful thing to be able to achieve the common goal in so many different ways but it's important that we understand what's going to be best for ourselves, too.
Markie Hageman 09:07
Yes, absolutely.
Shaye Koester 09:09
Yeah. So. Okay, so moving into number two, you brought up not having a clear lease contract if you aren't the owner of the land where your cattle are.
Markie Hageman 09:20
So that also hits close to home. The two pastures that I'm leasing right now, well, they're actually family owned, and I'm so grateful for them. I wouldn't be able to be where I am without that. More importantly, with family, I do think that there needs to be those hard lines like this is what is expected. I've had personal experiences with family who they're trying to be helpful, but it's kind of caused a lot of conflict with me because I want to be able to know what know what's happening. And I think with leases, sometimes that's the thing that people don't understand. There's a lot of maybe there's the legal jargon of it and maybe it's just the fact that you don't know where to start. And with lease contracts, I think that's important that you have just as much say, in it, as the landowner does. Because in the end, it's a mutual relationship, right? It is beneficial to both parties, and they want to have good people leasing their land just as much as you want to have that land to lease. So you have to be able to like say, "This is what I expect from you". One of the things that my personal experience is, there were some fences on the lease that I had that I used and I actually needed those fences. And one day I went out and the fences were gone. And I was like, Well, I kind of wish there was a conversation about it. And that's what I think is important is even just little things like that you don't think of like, put those in the lease, make sure you know, like, this is what I want. I want conversations, I want discussions, if anything needs to change, if anything isn't working, just let me know. So I think that's really important going forward is have a lease contract, and make sure that you have just as much say in as the landowner does.
Shaye Koester 11:17
Well, and that's the important part of contracts. Like that's the important part of any business agreement. It's supposed to be mutually beneficial on both sides. Each party gets something. You get something and give something. And so that's important. But I really think your comment about making sure that you have those lease contracts with family. And yes, sometimes the legalities can scare you away. But what if not having that contract ruined your relationship with that family member? And that's something that needs to be aware of, or if it brings up completely other legal issues, that would be way more difficult to deal with. And that's, that's something even on the small business side. It's like, there's times I don't want to have to send out contracts to guests or sponsors, but you know, I have to take care of myself. And that's no different in any business.
Markie Hageman 12:07
Yep, absolutely. I mean, it's just, I just think it's, it's a good way to keep the relationship without, you know, causing any unnecessary drama.
Shaye Koester 12:17
And it really also sets that nice line of okay, now we're doing business and now we're doing family time, which is valuable, even when you look at the transition planning side of things.
Markie Hageman 12:25
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Shaye Koester 12:27
Yeah. Okay, so number three, trying to do too much too fast. Talk about that one a little bit.
Markie Hageman 12:36
So, ever since I started, like, with my, my first heifers, my motto has kind of been like, start slow, start small and start simple. When you're coming from my background, where there was no way I could go out and just buy, you know, a trailer full of head, like, there's no way I was going to be able to afford any of that. I didn't have the land. For me, in order to actually get a grasp on things and to learn, I needed to start with a few head, I needed to know, what is the process, what are the things I have to do in order to get to that endpoint. And when you try to just like throw everything together, and you're trying to maybe find land to lease or maybe you just bought acreage and you're trying to put animals on it, and then you have to deal with fences, and then you have to deal with, you know, vaccines, and, you know, just all the different animal care and management things. It's overwhelming. I joke with people about how – at this point I have seven head right now –Just having that few cattle, I'm already overwhelmed. Because I'm working full time, I have a lot of other things that I'm doing in my life, trying to balance all of that is really overwhelming. So in order for me to have a viable business in the future, I need to understand the process. So I'm thankful because like this year, we have two bull calves that we will be steering and we will be feeding out and we will be butchering, and selling.
Shaye Koester 12:50
You know, that's another really important point is I think we all have these huge dreams and it's easy to just run and gun for them. But like you said, you have a full time job too. You are part of other things and so you have to be careful with that. You have to be careful with your resources. There's a lot of capital that goes into ranching and to be able to have the financial ability to pay for that if you're gonna grow fast. I mean, you can grow fast, but you have to make sure you have those financial resources or good relationship with your banker, whatever and however you are funding it, however you're able to do it, whatever your business model setup is you have to make sure you're able to do that. But also from you know, a mental health standpoint, too. You're taking on a huge burden. So I really appreciate you bringing up that point with that.
Markie Hageman 14:58
Well and I want to add to that, like when you talked about the mental health, you know, it's not just me, I am the face of it, I am the like mastermind behind my herd. But my fiance is a part of that, whether he wants to be or not and there have been, you know, conversations between us to where he's like, "I want to be able to go travel on the weekends or I want to do other things." But we're doing fence work. And I get that because like, this is a dedication that is completely different than what he's ever been interested in, you know, not coming from a livestock background. I have to be able to balance that I have to say to him, you know, what the work that we need to do, that's not life threatening. It's not, you know, anything that we just can't put off. So it's important for me to also say, I love this, this is my passion, but I need to be able to take a break too, in order to, you know, stay in my personal relationships and make sure that everything is working cohesively.
Shaye Koester 16:06
Well, that's awesome. And I think that's, you know, having those boundaries is important. I think that's something that we as a ranching industry, like I know, some people who are very good at setting those boundaries and going out and you know, maybe taking a vacation once a year, and I know people who never go. But, I think it's important that we set those boundaries and take the breaks that we need to. Yeah, absolutely. So moving on to number four, you talked about not understanding regional resources. So can you explain a little bit about understanding regional land, water, feedstuffs, and cattle breeds? What do you mean by that?
Markie Hageman 16:41
Well, yeah, pretty much all of those things, right? When I first decided that I wanted to, you know, get into cattle, eventually I was in Alabama and they have a lot of eared cattle there. They have Brahmas and stuff, and that works really well on that region and that's really common. But then I moved back to California, and it's different. You know, we, in California, we have a lot of issues with water. We have a lot of issues with land. And I was very, I'm limited on that. So I knew that I needed to kind of understand, like, where's the best spot to get a lease? Do I want irrigated pasture? Do I want, you know, pasture up in the foothills, or what what's gonna work best for me, and with the same, you know, same with the breeds, like I looked at what's gonna work best in the California and the dry California heat. I think you have to go into it and choose whatever you are passionate about. But you also have to look at in your area, you know, what's going to work out what is going to what's going to be a barrier, you have to know, like, this is something I'm going to face and I need to figure out how to work around that. So that was kind of my direction with it was, you need to understand, like, what is available to you. And that includes, like, you know, extension. I've been very outspoken about extension, like, in Alabama, it was really great. In California and my area, I've struggled with it. I haven't had the same, you know, I think, availability. So to me, you also have to like know, who are the experts that I can go to in my state, who are the land grant universities that I can reach out to. So that's also important, too, because that's going to be crucial to your success.
Shaye Koester 18:33
You know, that's really important. And I'm glad you brought up like, where you can go to find resources, because I think that's hard, because it's like, Who can we trust and everyone does have different experiences with different sides. You know, maybe some people have a good experience with the university, maybe some don't. So that's really important. So was there anywhere else that you really want to look for resources? I mean, you talked about extension, you talked about, you know, being able to branch out, but was there anything specific that's helped you outside of that?
Markie Hageman 19:19
I mean, I've really like leaned on my, the people in my local community, like my cattle women's group, and I know that's another thing that people in different areas don't have great access to, but I'm very blessed to have a good cattle women's group. Like I said, my stepdad and my uncle, they all have different backgrounds and different knowledge in it. I've been able to reach out to them. What I think people should do first and foremost is go to those like immediate connections if you have them. If you don't have them, make them and that's why you join your cattle women's, that's why you attend meetings. That's why you put yourself out there. That's why you reach out to social media, join Facebook groups. I don't suggest asking for advice on Facebook groups, that goes back to my first deadly sin but that is a great resource to like, find different articles and learn what other people are experiencing. So you can either learn from their mistakes, or you can say, I want to look into this a little bit more. I will say, I have used Google so much, it's not great, because you have to sift through all of the resources. But I go through and I'm like, I have a question on this, I want to know about this and I look it up and I find, you know, extension articles from all over the country. That's kind of what I base it off of. Then if I still have questions, I go to my vet. I go to my stepdad. I go to the people who have maybe a different perspective on it or can confirm, you know, yeah, this is right, this is good information, or, well, you could also do it this way. So I think the most beneficial thing you can do is create connections. It doesn't have to be like this, you know, long list of people that you can call just a couple people that you know that they know the industry, and they have some type of credential and make sure that you keep them because they are very valuable to your success.
Shaye Koester 21:24
I think those are all great points and kind of moving into number five, you brought up, you know, you brought up in this last one, which makes it move into number five, where you talked about not joining a cattleman or women or young farmers community.
Markie Hageman 21:39
Yes. So that's, and maybe I'm biased, because I've had such a good positive experience with it. I know a lot of people haven't. I will say when I lived in Alabama, I tried to join my county cattlewomen's group and it was not good. There was no beneficial like aspect to it. But I did join my young farmers and I did join my cattlewomen’s. And that's what boosted me about those people. I'm still friends with them. I still talk to them all the time and that's a great network to have. When I came to California, I joined my cattlewomen's group. I didn't know anyone because you know, at that point, I hadn't been in the industry here in California at all. They welcomed me with open arms. I am still connected to those women. I have since moved and joined the Fresno/Kings counties cattlewomen and I have lifelong friends from that. So I think that that's just I have already said it, like that's going to be your network, those are going to be the people that are in your area and they know someone and they can help you. Cattlewomen have offered to like, let me use their chute to like, you know, help me with questions that I've had on my calves like, it is so beneficial. So make sure you join that because one, you're going to be part of the industry conversation. But two, you're going to be a part of your community. And those are, I think important to be a business person. Because you're a leader, as a business person, you want to be a leader in your community too.
Shaye Koester 21:48
Well, and I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with that. I mean, it's something where also you have those people for the resources, but being a part of the community. I mean, you can't do everything alone. And even from an advocacy standpoint, even if you are like in that sense of like, it feels like preaching to the choir because they are your people, but that's also important and that's where you can collaborate and make a difference elsewhere in the community.
Markie Hageman 23:32
Yeah, yes, absolutely. Yes.
Shaye Koester 23:35
So number six, you said expecting to do it all on your own without a mentor friend experts connections or events is a deadly sin.
Markie Hageman 23:46
So I know we've already touched on this a little bit but yeah. If I did not have the people I have had, I would not be here. I am the face of this. I am the person that's like making the decisions. But ultimately, I am the one who's behind the scenes going to those people those connections I've made and saying what do I need for this? How do I prepare for this? For example, we will be castrating our bull calves at the end of February and will be branding. I've never done those things. I've watched them but never done them. But I want to be able to make sure that I have hands on experience and I want to have that with my own animals. So I'm reaching out right now. I have an extension agent in South Carolina.. I think North Carolina but if she watches this, sorry, Lauren, but I I have reached out to her and she's giving me resources on you know how to handle that process. And you know, I'll be asking my vet to make sure like what do I need? What should I have on hand? Because sure you know he's on call if I need him. So I in every single step of the way, I mean, I've had to have someone, even when it comes to lifting bales, like my fiance has to be there because I'm not strong enough and I don't want to hurt myself, right? So he comes out and he helps me with like, kind of the brunt work and things like that and fixing fence and, you know, moving cows if I need to, he helps so much. Another example like his dad grew our hay for us for the first couple of years, he has just a small field, but you know, we're able to use that hay and now we're taking that over from him. And those connections that on the land, the people, my breeder, you know, he's friends with us, my cattle nutritionist – I call him mine, but you know, he works for the dairies locally, but um, you know, he's been able to, like, help with my nutrition – those are all connections I've made. And I wouldn't know the things I know without them.
Shaye Koester 25:57
Well, I think that's awesome and amazing that you're giving credit to those people too. And, but I mean, I think about it, and even my experience, you know, growing up, I'm fifth generation, right? So I've been in it a long time, but we still ask for a lot of help. Everyone needs help. That's a part of improving. That's a part of building is that understanding that it's okay that we don't know all the answers, because you can connect with someone else who can help us and you know, there's a lot of power and beauty that comes with that too. In those collaborations.
Markie Hageman 26:30
Yes, like, asking for help. And you said those two things, asking for help and not knowing everything. Those are not bad things. You are human. If you know everything, then you're not human. Because not everyone knows everything. Everyone messes up all the time. So yeah, those are like very important.
Shaye Koester 26:50
Awesome. Okay, so number seven. Moving on to the last one, we're gonna, you know, talk about today, even though I feel like we've hit a lot of little ones in between. But number seven, not creating a legal entity, and handling your small business as a business.
Markie Hageman 27:07
So for me, right away, before I even like, really knew the direction I was taking was my herd. I legalized in California and so I have an LLC. Because I knew that the expenses that I have with all of this, the input that goes into it, is going to be helpful. When it comes to taxes and when it comes to just, you know, all of the benefits of having registered business in California. Wanting to get like an FSA loan, wanting to get loans from banks, like being able to have that business plan, like that's going to be important. I hate the word hobby farms because technically, I could probably be categorized as a hobby farm. And I'm like, No, this is a part time business like this is a lot of work. And I'm putting in a lot of work, making sure that I follow the steps that are required to have a legal business in California and doing all the small steps right now, even though I'm not selling anything yet. I have a product, but I'm not doing anything with that product yet. I'm setting myself up. So later on, I'm not freaking out trying to figure it out, or realizing that, wow, I lost out on a lot of things. Because I didn't have, you know, this business setup. So it's complicated. I'm still learning it. I am not an expert. But you know, that's one of my goals this year is to, you know, really focus on the business side of it. I think that a lot of people need to focus on that and take it seriously. if you don't take yourself seriously, no one else is going to. So take whatever dreams that you have seriously. And the LLC for me was like super cheap, super cheap. There's nothing really to it, right. But now that's going to help me continue to grow and continue to focus on other parts of my business. So you know, get your brand registered. Get your business registered. Do those little things, because not only is that going to motivate you and make you feel more proud about yourself, it's also going to set you up for success later on.
Shaye Koester 29:20
Well, I think, you know, you everything you've said is important. But, you know, going back to what we talked about with the legal stuff earlier, it is important to have that LLC set up. And, you know, I want to make a point where like, I guess, you know, you made the hobby farm comment. I think the difference, you know, some of the difference there is you know, are you having your operation to be a business like, Is your goal to make it more profitable, or are you just doing it more as a hobby, but I do believe that we as producers need to give credit to some of the smaller operations because they can be profitable if they're run right. And it's something where we just need to build that business mindset about ranching, no matter what our position and learn to treat it like a business. And there are some and I'm not saying we don't like there are some people who are phenomenal at it. But I think there's a lot that needs to be improved. Yep. And that would in turn improve the industry in a lot of other areas.
Markie Hageman 30:16
Yes. Yeah. Like, big producers are so important. They are necessary in the industry. But coming from like, this small producer, and beginner producer, I'm like, Okay, I probably am never gonna get there. But I want to get to you know, the point where I am, you know, respected and considered, you know, a viable beef business. And when I come to like cattlecon and stuff, I can go to these booths. And you know, say, hey, I want your product. And this is, you know, it's going to benefit me, and I want them to say, This is why it would benefit you. I mean, the average herd size was less than 50, in the United States. So I think it's important that we do try to focus on them too a little bit more. And so I'm hoping with my platform that I can help raise more awareness. But I'm really thankful for the people who do have large operations that have like helped me because those are the people that are like giving me that guidance. So I'm just excited to be able to work with more like large producers and, and raise awareness for all types of operations and businesses, because we're all needed in one aspect or another.
Shaye Koester 31:28
Oh, awesome. So is there anything else on your heart to say to some of those first generation managers before we wrap up today?
Markie Hageman 31:36
I just like hope that they just go for it. I think that's I mean, we talked about that in the panel the other day is just, you just got to go for it. And I think that if you sit there and you try to like map everything out to a tee, before you get started, you're never gonna start, you're always gonna find something that's gonna keep you from going to the next step, right? If you just go and you're just like, I'm going to start with one cow, I'm going to start with one acre, I'm going to, you know, start with registering my brand, if you just go, if you just do it, you're gonna keep doing it. And I just hope that people like, hopefully, just find that encouragement and inspiration and find a community. And if they can't find the community, they can come to me because I will be their cheerleader. Because I think that it is very discouraging, and it's hard. In my position, I do feel a lot of discouragement. But I'm excited too. And I just, I'm stubborn, and I just want them to be that way too.
Shaye Koester 32:37
Well, awesome. Thank you very much for hopping on the show today and sharing all your wisdom and experience to our listeners.
Markie Hageman 32:44
Thank you Shaye I had a fun time.
Shaye Koester 32:48
And that's a wrap on that one. Thank you for tuning in again. I hope to see you on the next one. And thank you Markie for being honest and sharing your advice. For all you first time or first generation ranchers. I really hope that you found comfort in knowing that it's not easy and others are right there doing it with you and you're needed. And you're important and we are excited to have you in the industry. And that's coming from myself who is a fifth generation. And when Markie says, you know, know that you can come to her, know, you can come to me too. There are people who want to support you. And for those of you who have been ranching for generations, support those first generation ranchers be there for them too, because it's going to take everyone. So with that, have a great day and I'll catch you on the next one.
