Tips for Managing Hired Hands
Shaye Koester 00:02
Hey, hey, it’s Shaye Koester and I’m your host for the Casual Cattle Conversations podcast where we connect you to ranchers and beef industry enthusiasts who can help you build a more profitable operation and improve your lifestyle. Are you looking for a community of ranchers who support and challenge you to be more profitable and proactive? Then sign-up for our monthly RancherMind events. RancherMinds are mastermind events for ranchers to come together once a month and find solutions for their own and the industry's challenges. Stay connected by following @cattleconvos on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter and never miss an episode or event update by signing up for our newsletter on casualcattleconversations.com/newsletter. If you get value out of this episode or any episode drop a comment or tip me by using the link in the show notes. With that let’s see who our guest is today and connect you to a new resource to improve your own operation and lifestyle. Hey folks! Today we are going to talk about tackling the labor challenge that we all face. Now we all know that "Finding the right person to work on your ranch is TOUGH! Trying to find qualified individuals who are dedicated to our line of work seems impossible these days. But, the good news is that I have a resource to share that can lessen this burden for you. Ranchwork.com is a ranch-focused and dedicated job board. Founded in 1998 RanchWork.com has been dedicated to connecting qualified candidates to potential employers. Recieving over 50,000 visitors per month on their website, Ranchwork helps cow-calf producers and dude ranches find folks who are hungry to work! This family-owned and operated company is based out of the USA and wants to help YOU find your next qualified hired hand. With both FREE and paid job posting packages that go live in under 24 hours, Ranchwork.com can help you. That's R-A-N-C-H-W-O-R-K.COM" Today we are visiting with Lance Cox about how to keep a hired hand. Lance has worked for several ranches and today he is going to share the hired man’s perspective on what makes him stay on an operation and which leadership and management styles are effective.
Remember to DM me for more resources on this content or for information on booking me for as a public speaker. There is also a place to comment about the episode and tip the host in the shownotes.
With that, let’s learn how you can keep your next hired hand around longer.
Lance Cox 02:08
You bet! I'm glad to finally be on the phone with you, for you to make this happen.
Shaye Koester 02:14
I know you've been part of the journey since well, about that first month, I think you've been a follower. So that's been awesome.
Lance Cox 02:24
It has been it's been really fun to watch your podcast grow and become what it is today and I think it's pretty exciting. And it's very important to the ag community. And what you're doing is fantastic. And I've got you've got my full support as much as I can. And I'm glad to finally be a part of it.
Shaye Koester 02:47
Well thank you, Lance. So I think our audience needs to get to know you a little better. So would you talk about your background in ranching
Lance Cox 02:59
Alright. Well, I am the let's see, I would be the fifth generation for my family on the Cox side that's been involved with agriculture in some sort of way. My great great grandpa started small, My great grandpa expanded off of that, and my grandpa actually moved off of I think it's our third homestead and started Chippewa Creek Simmentals in Grass Range, Montana, back in 1967. So it's always been in my blood, my dad also moved back to the place. And in 2011, me and him moved back and have been ranching pretty much my whole life, you know, not constantly but for the most part since 2011 minus three and a half years from my time in the army. I've been around cows or horses or livestock or some some sort throughout my entire life and yeah, I grew up on small cattle operation in Grass Range and raised Simmental cattle there for a long time. They still got that operation going today and it's exciting to see its future there. Yeah. So that's kind of the background on that. Other side, you know, by the time I graduated high school, I lived in like 17 different homes, literally. My folks bounced around quite a bit. My mom's been in the fair industry for years. And so I've always had that background as well and being involved with that sort of stuff has been really cool thing for eight for 10 years and try and get an FFA going in little Grass Range, Montana and they now have it. So that's exciting. So yeah, it's a life's crazy and I graduated high school in 2015 and decided I didn't have enough money for college, the only way to get that paid for was to go into the service. So I was a 91 Bravo, which is a wheel mechanic for three and a half years, and enjoyed my time and made some of the closest brothers I've ever had my entire life. And really enjoyed that I got out and 2019 and went to college. And that's where I met you.
Shaye Koester 05:38
Absolutely. And thank you for your service, Lance.
Lance Cox 05:42
I appreciate that and I don't want to sound like some battle heart veteran, because I am definitely not. There's guys out there that deserve a lot more credit than I ever, ever will even come close to taking or anything like that. So hats off to those guys that came before me and stepped away. And yeah, so it's kind of the military side. But yeah,
Shaye Koester 06:07
Well, you have quite the extensive background and passion and legacy in ranching. I mean, fifth generation, that's a long time. So what are you doing today because you're not currently back on your homeplace.
Lance Cox 06:23
Oh, currently, I work for Stevenson's Diamond Dot out of Hobson, Montana. I work for what I considered my second family Clint and Danna Stevenson. Long background in Black Angus cattle. I know that I probably can't say that on your podcast, but there it is. I am just a ranch hand and I'm starting to get into a little bit more cattle sales. And so we're planning on starting a cattle broker business on the side with the Diamond Dot ranch, as far as selling calves down south to feedyards, packing plants or you know, if they go get background, they get background too. So we're gonna tackle that myself, Clint and his son Carson, us three are all going to tag team on that one and try and get that going and expand their answer even farther, as far as, you know, being involved in cattle as much as we possibly can and try and help other people out. You know, it's kind of the main goal with that. And having, you know, my background of going to college for a short amount of time I did, in Nebraska I was able to meet some really awesome people down there that either have connections to feedyards and or they themselves run a feedyard or background operation or something like that. So it's been been a very, very big asset to have under my belt, I guess, if you will. Um, you know, and I probably still be going to college right now had it not been for, you know, the virus, and everything. I'm not gonna dive into that one. But shortly after that, my sister unfortunately passed away in a car wreck. So I moved back to northeast Montana, and I worked for my brother-in-law there for a little bit and one of his good buddies, Michael Crandall, I worked on their operation for gosh, 9-10 months. I'm not sure how long it was exactly. I've been away from home for six years and kind of decided it was time for me to go back closer to home and, and that's when I took the job with Diamond Dot and I've been loving it ever since. So it's been exciting. And there's a lot of opportunity there for you know, a ranch hand like myself in that society. So...
Shaye Koester 08:58
Well, that's awesome to hear and really, what I wanted to talk to you really about today is we all know the labor shortage and issue and ranching is huge. And it's a problem and it's hard to find good help. It's hard to keep good help but I'd really want to hear your perspective on the ranch hand side of things. So you've worked on multiple operations as a ranch hand and what would you say is the main thing that really makes you want to stay at a place
Lance Cox 09:29
You know, I I would like to think that I'm speaking on behalf but of a bit of a large group of people here when I say this, but you know, for me, number one is is going to be the family atmosphere. I think that is that is very crucial. As far as you know, being on a place for a long time and enjoying it. For me, every place I've ever worked for, and I think this is is critical and somebody that's wanting to get into You know, ranching, however they find a way. One thing you have to keep in mind is, whatever place you are working on, you have to think of everything as your own as a ranch hand, and I think that is absolutely critical. As far as being a ranch hand in general. Now, as far as you know, staying on a place for a long time, and finding work ethic, you got to you have to be able to work with other people. I mean, if you can't do that, you probably won't last long. And, and you might, you know, you might be in a spot where you find yourself fixing a lot of fence or doing something like that, that's great, you're out by yourself. Well, odds are, you're going to end up working cows, and you know, process in them, or moving cows with other people, you're going to have to communicate. So if you're not really a people person, and you want to go work for a large operation that's got, you know, let's say 10 employees and other ranch hands you're gonna have to figure out how to get along with people in order to enjoy what you're doing.
Shaye Koester 11:17
So at the beginning, there, you kind of brought up a really good point of how as a ranch hand you need to think of everything as your own. Because, you know, take care of it, like you would want it to be treated if it was your own, right? But on the reverse side of that, how do you navigate it? Because it isn't your own and you're not the sole decision maker? How do you navigate those two different mindsets? Maybe not two different mindsets, but you know what, I mean, two different ways of looking at it?
Lance Cox 11:47
Well, I guess, kind of how I was raised, you know, you do what you're told, you don't ask questions. You know, I, when it comes to that, I guess I'm always the type of person that I'm always looking for a better way to do something, you know, whether it's something as simple as pounding a t-post in or moving cows, you know, I'm always open to other people's opinions and what they have to say, even if I don't agree with it. I still want to ask those questions. And, you know, sometimes I might come across as dumb and that, aspect, and, you know, in some cases I might be a little bit. I was in the Army for crying out loud. So I guess the biggest thing is, you just do what you are told you don't ask. And if it doesn't work out, then you know, you're in a spot where you can, you know, step in and say something, then by all means, go ahead and voice your opinion. But you know, there's so much there's so much change in the ag industry, and that sort of stuff that there's always room to learn and grow. And that's really an awesome thing about ag. We are evolving immaculately, you know, since even the 80s, really, I mean, cattle and the way you feed them, the way you work them, everything. It's just, it's constantly evolving. And I think, in this industry, if you can't be willing to learn from whatever you're told, then you might not work out very long.
Shaye Koester 13:30
Yeah, there definitely is value. And I mean, that kind of goes back to the point of this podcast to like sharing the experiences of others. There is a lot of evolution, but there's a lot of value in that experience as well.
Lance Cox 13:44
Yes, and I think when it comes to the older generation like my grandpa or something like that, you know, they've been set in their ways of how to do things. And I think, the next generation, you know, our generation of people that are willing to get out there and learn and work hard, um, that can, let's say, go back to their place, and improve on things. I think that's gonna set you up for more success than keeping things the same as they've always been. You know and I think a lot of it's kind of unfortunate, but a lot of people are stuck in the the same trend or the same way of doing things in the cattle industry and even, even so the farming side of things, too. They're just, it's so ingrained. You know, this is the way it's always been done. I've seen quotes that the most expensive saying in agriculture is that's the way it's always been done. So that's how we're going to do it. I think that's very detrimental, sometimes to operations.
Shaye Koester 15:01
Oh, definitely. I agree with that. And legacy is important. But we have to remember that those pioneers who started that legacy were innovators themselves. That's how they survived.
Lance Cox 15:13
Absolutely. You are correct.
Shaye Koester 15:18
Yeah. So before you had mentioned that, it's important that you get along with people and that you're somewhat of a people person, or at least, maybe if you even are an introvert that you can at least still work with people, right. So what's been an effective relationship style between you and your managers, or even just an effective communication style?
Lance Cox 15:43
I think it's important to, as far as the ranch and perspective goes to ask, you know, because ranching you, you might go to bed one night, the next morning, the calendar out and whatever you have planned the next day doesn't happen. And I think it's important to ask your boss, what do you want done? How you want it done? Um, what are some of the things like some of the tools you'd recommend using, you know, whatever it is, at the end of the day, it's still their place, and, you know, things might hit the fan, and then you, you're out of a job, but at least they know that, hey, that fence was built the way that they wanted it. They own that property.
Shaye Koester 16:43
So what about on the flip side? Where, like, how do you like your manager communicating with you?
Lance Cox 16:57
It's hard to say because I've never been in a manager positio. So it's kind of hard for me to look at it in the right terms or whatever. But I think as far as, as a manager, telling you how to do something and communicating at the end of the day, that's on them. You can ask as much as possible. As far as how you want things done. And odds are, you know, I can't say I've never been on a place where the owner says, I don't care how it's done, go do it. Like, that's, that's really never happened. They still have that inclination of hey, like this my place I can adapt this way. So as far as that goes, I guess the communication side thought.
Shaye Koester 18:08
So with that, kind of manager style? Is it something where you prefer to have a little more freedom or do you find it more effective to just be given that list and say, This is how you do it? Or do you like the freedom to be able to make just a little bit of your own decisions in some scenarios
Lance Cox 18:30
My mentality for me personally, and other people might differ, you know, some people they have to be you know, step by step process on how to fix fence or how to build them, or something like that, you know, or how to work cattle. For me, if somebody lays out, you know, Monday wants to do this Tuesday, this so on so forth throughout the week, and we get to Sunday and, you know, I've accomplished all those tasks, that for me, I feel like I would much rather have the freedom in doing that than necessarily, you know, day to day or project by project. But then again, it's ranching and you never know what could happen. You might end up with with this blizzard and you're out there for 36 straight hours and tending to the cows during calving time or putting out straw, making sure everything's staying warm, you know, stuff like that.
Shaye Koester 19:41
It all makes sense, Lance. And I agree. It definitely would depend on the person as far as that style. So what advice do you have for other ranch hands who are trying to find you know, the right place for them when they're in that interview process or visiting with the manager beforehand to make sure that it's going to be a fit for them? Because there's personality differences? That are important to recognize.
Lance Cox 20:07
Yeah, I think if somebody's looking for the right place, like I said at the beginning, everybody's different, for me I want that family atmosphere and just at the end of the day, ranching is family oriented. I mean, it has been for years, that's why ranches get passed down to the next generation constantly. You know, and I hate to see it when, when a place has been in one family for you know, 5 to 6 or 7 generations and for some reason, they get sold or, you know, hard times and everybody has to sell out, I've seen that a little bit this summer with the drought in Montana. But from a ranch hand perspective, you know, find that family atmosphere and, and somebody that wants to help you and improve more than just the day to day fixing fence like somebody that you know, for an example, Clint and Danna are going to send Carson and I to AI school down in Kansas here in January. I mean, it's simple stuff like that. They want to improve you and help you be successful, and not just keeps you in the same spot for the rest of your life. I think that is very important if you get in with an operation that wants to see you succeed. You know, maybe Lord willing, someday you'll end up with your own place or your own cows, and that sort of stuff. I think that is very important. And I'm very, very blessed, and I thank the good Lord every day for putting me where he has because I have those opportunities in front of me with where I'm at, I just have to go pursue them you know, I don't want to sound cocky or arrogant, I think I'm willing enough to learn. And I'm hungry, hungry for agriculture. And I love it, it's in my blood. And for me, I'm in the right spot. And you know, the only way that I don't tell them all the time the only way I think I'd ever leave is if if I got a phone call to go back home and run the operation. So until then I'm going to make the best of every situation every single day and give it my all whenever I'm at work. Odds are when I'm not at work, I'm thinking about work and you know, thinking about how I can improve myself to make the whole operation better. That's just kind of my mentality other people are different Everybody's got their own mindset you know some people are fine with with uh you know showing up at seven o'clock in the morning or eight o'clock and going home at four or five o'clock and you know, being with the family if they've got one or the bunk house and the say they're in Nevada and they're doing nothing but cowboy and you know, that is a whole nother atmosphere a whole nother animal we're not going to tackle today but yeah, I think it's just you got to find a place that is willing to help you out and you know accomplish your goals in life and if you find one that's like that stick with it and don't make anybody mad because they can get rid of you too! (laughter) I think those are all great points Lance and I mean something to really pull out of everything you just said there was that you know you have the opportunity to improve yourself go to AI school, do all those things and improve personally. And that's something that other businesses do for their employees and ranch businesses should really be no different. I mean that self advancement whether it's a skill or a certification of some sort, that's important. Absolutely. And I think like doing things like going to AI school and stuff like that, you know we have we have three people in the place that are qualified to say they know how to AI right now as far as I'm tracking we have three people. One of those is is the boss man himself plant the next this is a guy by the name of Matt. I hopefully have permission to say his name on here but Matt's been along around the place for gosh 25 years and other person is this Morgan Bellamy and she's in charge of the herd health and everything. And those two you know they work their tails off in AI season. So when Carson I go to AI school, you know we're going to be pretty green and, and have no idea what we're doing. To start off with, but as long as things that by my understanding is repetition, over time, you'll get good at it, but it'll take the load off of those two. So that way, they're not so stressed, and having to put in as many hours as they do, and it'll help them out a lot. And in turn it's really going to make the operation a better place too because, you know, we'll be able to go out and AI for other people, and help our neighbors out in those terms, as well.
Shaye Koester 25:37
What advice do you have for ranchers who are trying to find help for their operations?
Lance Cox 25:46
Oh, that's a tough one. I don't want to beat up on on our generation, because there is a lot of really hard working people that are in our generation. And finding the folks that are our age that are willing to work as hard as it takes to be on a ranch is very difficult. And it's when you find somebody good, as far as their, you know, hiring somebody out when you find somebody good. I think it's, you know, kind of common sense and common knowledge, you want to make sure you hold on to those people. Now, the ranching industry, people come and go all the time. I was, I've seen operations that have hired and fired and had people quit or leave for various reasons. I've seen an operation that had 26 people hired on and off in five years. So I mean, people come and go all the time, and it works out or it doesn't. And, I mean, everybody's got their own reason for staying or leaving. And as far as finding good help, it's really hard in certain ways that the government has everything set up. And that sort of stuff with welfare is ridiculous. So once you find somebody that's good, you know, a lot of people that have ag backgrounds and grew up on a farm or that understand what it takes to be involved with a place, I think that is the first place to start looking, you know, if they want to do that, they will pursue it, and they'll be there. I am in that boat, and, you know, kids coming out of college too that, we're on an ag background, I think it's very important for them to step away from home for a few years, and go work for other places. You know, I'm not saying necessarily bounce around every six months, or whatever, but, you know, give it four or five years before you go back home and take what you learned at those places and apply it to, to your place back home, if you will. If you have that opportunity, and that luxury of going back home, you know, some people like myself, obviously don't have that. So we're willing to go and work for other people and other outfits and make the best out of it. So it's exciting. That's kind of my advice for answers that are looking to hire people. And right now, it's tough. You know, that's, it's not just an agriculture, it's all across the board, it's hard to find people that are willing to work. And that's kind of a downfall in our generation. But like I said, there's a lot of really good people and a lot of good kids coming up too that are starting their own businesses and that sort of stuff and are willing to do the work to make things happen. So I'm not gonna bash on us completely, all the time. Bu that's about all I got.
Shaye Koester 29:11
Well, Lance, I think you said a lot of great things in there. But I'm gonna maybe counter argue with you or argue with you a little bit there. It's important to find people with ag backgrounds, because like you said, there's people like yourself who maybe there's not room to return home, or whatever the various situation may be. But I think what's neat and actually very powerful are the individuals who want to become involved in and learn who don't come from an ag background, because from an advocacy standpoint, and really sharing our beef story, which makes it a whole marketing standpoint. Those people are truly the connectors who can help share the story of beef and market beef to a broader audience.
Lance Cox 29:52
I think too Shaye, we went to college with a few people who grew up inner city, and have the thought of, you know, being involved in ag. I think that is absolutely crucial to the Ag industry in itself is getting people that are on the interstates, you know, out on the farm, experiencing how things operate and understanding where their food comes from. During my time in service, a lot of people had no idea where how the world did the leather get on their shoes? Or how, how does the meat get from a store to their plate? You know, how how did that happen? Where was it before the story, you know, they can't, they can't exactly make it, and Albertsons or Walmart or wherever you shop at. So regardless of what anti-meat people would say, but that's a, it's very, very, very critical and very important to have people from inner cities in and non background of being in agriculture to get involved with agriculture. And for the most part, I'm always willing to teach people about it, because it's something I enjoy doing is sharing information on agriculture and so much about on this podcast.
Shaye Koester 31:43
Yeah. So another question here for you. What would you say is the right mindset for both managers and ranch hands to have when it comes to understanding the ranch hand's role on the operation? And I know you've touched on it a little bit, but what do you think that mindset is for? Understanding each one's role and how they can work together?
Lance Cox 32:06
You know, for me, it kind of goes back to a military standpoint is if my, if my leader, my boss, my NCO, or my boss is willing to work as hard as I am day in and day out, I think that right there itself will say a lot about, you know, being on the same page. And, you know, our generations now coming up and then coming back to the place or whatever, and the guys before us, they've done their time. I you know, I was raised to the point where, if you're 21 years old, and somebody is pounding in a post let's say, a railroad tie with a spud bar, and, you know, and he's 45 or 50, that that's not right. If you're just standing there watching him, you need to you need to jump in there, and then take that away from him, despite what he says. I think that's very important, because odds are the guys that are older than we are by, you know, 20 to 30 years, they've been there, done that got the t shirt. And it's our time to do that. And Lord willing, if you raise your kids up right, they'll do the same for you when it's your turn to put the tamping bar in somebody else's hands. So I think as far as that perspective, know, the older generation, they've worked hard, just like we have or are willing to. And you have to understand that as an American. In a lot of places, odds are the guy that hires you, he owns it. There's more about it than it is though, and he's gonna be out there longer than you will and when that happens, that is, that is awesome. Now, I have been on places where that hasn't happened. I gotta tell you it's very agitating. I've been in the military and I've had NCOs that are horrible and they take care of themselves before their troops and that is wrong. Do you know where we're pegging out on that speedometer right there on the wrong levels. That doesn't sit very well with me when that happens. But I think if you find a place where boss willing to put in the work and has already done the work like years past, it's pretty easy to see that in you are in the right spot and better be happy with where you're at.
Shaye Koester 34:44
Well, that's a lot of great insight, Lance. And as we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to share with the audience today?
Lance Cox 34:55
You know, ranching and agriculture in general can be depressing. You know, there's months where you might be alone day in and day out by yourself. And it gets depressing. And make it sound like agriculture, people aren't resilient but I think mental health is very important in the ag industry. And taking care of yourself is very important. You need to make sure that you are happy with where you're at. If you wake up every day and go to work, if you love what you do. Luckily, you'll never work a day in your life. And no, there's some days I get put in a tractor. I feel like that. I'm, you know, I'm working. But there's other days when I'm horseback and moving cows. I think myself, man, I'm really getting paid to do this so as far as that goes, I think that your health mentally and physically is very important. And having a firm belief that the good Lord up above is, if it wasn't for him, nobody be here. So having faith in God, and spreading the word about Jesus is very critical to do. That's probably my advice for consensus. I guess one last thing is wash your hands, say your prayers, because, Jesus and germs, are everywhere.
Shaye Koester 36:25
Well, thank you very much for that Lance and for being on the show today. I'm sure there are many listeners out there who will appreciate your perspective with your role as a ranch and and your idea of what makes you want to stay and your thoughts on the matter, because that's a new perspective for the show. So I really appreciate it.
Lance Cox 36:47
Awesome. I really, really appreciate the joy watching what you've done with, with everything this podcast is booming and has taken off and it's exciting to see such a good friend being successful. I know it hasn't been easy but if it was easy, it wouldn't be worth it. I'll put it that way.
Shaye Koester 37:08
Well thank you very much, Lance. And that’s a wrap on that one. Thank you Lance for serving our country and sharing your experiences in the ranching world. Folks, remember to comment, rate the show and tip the host in the show notes to let me know what information you want to hear. Take care and have a great day!
