How to Adapt Your Grazing System to Your Environment

 Shaye Koester  00:05

Hey, hey, it’s Shaye Koester and I’m your host for the Casual Cattle Conversations podcast where we connect you to ranchers and beef industry enthusiasts who can help you build a more profitable operation and improve your lifestyle.  Are you looking for a community of ranchers who support and challenge you to be more profitable and proactive? Then sign-up for our monthly RancherMind events. RancherMinds are mastermind events for ranchers to come together once a month and find solutions for their own and the industry's challenges.   Stay connected by following @cattleconvos on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter and never miss an episode or event update by signing up for our newsletter on casualcattleconversations.com/newsletter.   If you get value out of this episode or any episode drop a comment or tip me by using the link in the show notes.  With that let’s see who our guest is today and connect you to a new resource to improve your own operation and lifestyle.  Alright, Wes. Well, thank you for joining me on the show today. It's great to have you on here. And to share your story with my listeners. I know we've been able to chat a little bit kind of briefly over email and a phone call here and there. But to start off, and to introduce yourself, would you talk about your background in agriculture and what that looks like today?

Wes Chism  01:18

Yeah, sure. Thanks for having us. So I'm originally from Kentucky and I'd be a fourth-generation on that farm before I actually moved west. I got a degree in Ag Econ from the University of Kentucky and went to work for the Charolais association for six years as a territory manager in Texas and Arkansas and Oklahoma, and Louisiana. And then I've been with Gallagher since 2015, as a territory manager in Missouri.

Shaye Koester  01:45

Okay, so then, you know, today to preface this for the audience, you know, we're gonna be talking about some rotational grazing and whatnot. So as you work with Gallagher, how does your role with Gallagher tie into helping producers with rotational grazing or your knowledge base there?

Wes Chism  02:03

So, since I've been with Gallagher, it's been really good and it's been incredibly interesting to see how that has evolved from when I was young. And we, you know, there's been quite a bit of rotational grazing done in Kentucky for a long time. And then when I got to go to Texas to see how they kind of adapted it to their needs, and then now here, but it just seems like it's a technology and a practice that just keeps evolving. You know, with Gallagher, I kind of feel like my role is to help producers, both by educating where they go and buy products, educating the staff there, as well as educating the actual consumer, the guy on the ranch about different techniques I've seen and other various components of this practice. And there are always different ways of doing things. And it's kind of neat to go different places and see how other people are doing it.

Shaye Koester  02:57

Well, absolutely and that's something that we talk about a lot on this show is there's more than one way to achieve your results to achieve success on your ranch. So what in your territory? What states are those? How big is that? What does that look like?

Wes Chism  03:11

So I cover all the state of Missouri and then I cover Southern Illinois. So, you know, with Missouri, we've got a very diverse state, the north part of the state, there's a lot of row crops, a lot of agronomy-based agriculture and the southern part of the state is very much cow-calf oriented. It's a little rougher topography, get the hills and hollers. And so it's a little more suited for cattle production.

Shaye Koester  03:37

So now, this might be a little bit of a loaded question, because you already said you run a diverse territory. But what are some of those challenges that producers in your territory face when it comes to the grazing side of things?

Wes Chism  03:50

So the biggest challenge, just right off the bat is fescue. I mean, it's dominant my state up from top to bottom and managing that, even though it is a wonderful grass and can be great to have. It does come with its own management challenges. But that's one of the biggest things but the other side of it is from north to south we struggle with, you know, different types of grass and different soil quality. In northern Missouri, I think you could get a drop of rain and grow something there. The soils are so good, but you get into southern Missouri, there are a lot of rocks. And so the challenges that go with not only you know what grasses thrive there, but what products we can use even put in the ground. I mean, it's hard to step a post in if it's on solid rock.

Shaye Koester  04:39

Do you want to dive deeper into some of those challenges that fescue is creating for people in that area?

Wes Chism  04:45

It's pretty widespread. I think anybody that's ever had fescue on the ranch or on the farm, understands that it requires a little more management. What I think I'm pretty heartened to see here is guys are kind of going back to some of the native grasses of Missouri. They're going back and they're looking at why if something was here before we decided to remove it. And I saw that happening in Texas, when I left down there to those guys were looking at native grasses and how they could go back a little more to what thrives there naturally. But there's a lot more focus being put on cool-season grasses, warm-season grasses, and trying to introduce some more variety into their pastures and grazing systems. You know, a couple of years ago, you never heard of anybody grazing turnips or grazing carrots. And now it's just kind of part of it. I mean, everybody just kind of accepts it. And that's, you know, and the guys that do that have seen a lot of success.

Shaye Koester  05:43

Yeah, grazing has been talked about a fair amount on the show. And with my animal science degree, that's something that was touched on there, too. So we're gonna stay on the fescue topic a little bit now from a rotational grazing standpoint, what do some of those strategies look like? As far as managing that fescue, you talked about trying to bring back some of those native grasses? So what are some of those specific strategies that you see farmers and ranchers implementing on their operations, to control that fescue and bring some of those native grasses back? What are you seeing people doing that's been working.

06:20

So what I think is, a lot of guys have had some, some success with is they've been able to, you know, implement and add, you know, like, we'll say, with warm-season grasses, that's when fescue really kind of goes dormant. And it's kind of a struggle to deal with, you're not getting a lot out of it. But the biggest problem with fescue is once it kind of gets stemy, cattle don't want to eat it. It's a rough, very coarse plant. So they'll immediately try to eat everything else around it. So as long as those guys if they're doing rotational grazing, and they're doing one that's very highly managed, you know, they're moving cattle frequently, they're able to keep ahead of that, and keep that fescue eaten down, or it doesn't ever really get stemy, it doesn't really get coarse. And then, you know, they introduce in the summertime, here, we have a lot of clover, which brings some other challenges with it as well like bloat, but it is a, you know, you add that in with the mix, and it does a good job for them and then when you get into fall, I mean, it's hard to beat that stockpile fescue and more guys, you know, it's a lot cheaper to let the cow eat the grass, than it is for you to cut it and bale it. So, you know, the stockpile of the fescue and putting it back and reserving it for later has become really popular as well.

Shaye Koester  07:38

Okay, so you talked about, you know, adding the clover into the mix? Are you seeing a lot of people kind of trying to replant some of those grazing grounds with more native mixes? Or what are you seeing on that front? Or are they using more just grazing strategies in general to shift the plant communities?

Wes Chism  07:55

I think you're seeing just a shift. But there is I mean, there are quite a few people that have latched on to the idea of native grasses and just trying to find that balance. But you see, on the other side of the coin, there's a lot of guys that they'd rather burn all the clover out of the field, and they don't want to see it anymore. So it's like you said earlier, I mean, it's what works for you. The guys that are really serious about it, that are really looking at the dollars and cents, and the bottom line are trying to figure out how to manage and maintain what they've got without adding extra chemicals without extra work without extra time to the field with diesel the cost that it is now.

Shaye Koester  08:36

Yeah, that extra fuel cost is really a burden for a lot of people right now.

Wes Chism  08:40

That is correct.

Shaye Koester  08:42

So you made the comment about, you know, one part of managing fescue was a little more having higher management or maybe a higher intensity grazing system, or you're moving more frequently. Are you seeing individuals do that with permanent paddocks and permanent fence? Or do you recommend more like the temporary fence all the time? Because I know there are a lot of varying opinions on that. And it does depend on you know, how diverse your operation is in itself and where you're at from a labor standpoint. So what are you seeing from the fencing aspect of it, and what do you kind of do you recommend?

Wes Chism  09:21

So I'll start with the back side of the question and work my way forward. You know, as far as a recommendation, I tell everybody, you need to do what works best for you. I've got some customers I've dealt with over the years. I've got a gentleman in Southeast Missouri. I guess the core of his operation is he actually finishes out dairy heifers, and he moves them every hour. But he's retired. He's 65 or 70 years old, and that's what he does every day. And he thoroughly enjoys going out there and doing it. But on the other side of that coin, you know, we've got guys that move them every week. So it really just you know What your time allows for, you know, your management to be. Moving into that question a little deeper, we see a lot of guys that a handful of years ago, there was a lot of permanent fence construction being done guys that were building those permanent pads, permanent paddocks pastures, however you want to say, and moving on through those. And then now, it seems like we've seen more of a shift towards more about maintaining the cow. Now we've seen more of a shift towards the temporary fence, having a totally fluid system, not even a permanent watering point, I mean, being able to move everything, as the grass, allows and really chasing that forage to utilize it the best.

Shaye Koester  10:46

Now with some of these questions, you have varying operations, but so in the summer, which would be your more traditional breeding season for a lot of producers, do you see you know, having different breeding groups and bulls and different pastures holding people back from doing rotational grazing? What do you see on that front? Because especially on your seedstock side, you're gonna have cows pretty strategically split up for that natural service cleanup bull or whatever sire group they're in. So what are you seeing happen on that front as far as grazing,

Wes Chism  11:18

So my background is actually purebred cattle. I mean, I grew up on a Charolais Angus operation. And that's what I've always done and known. And I do think that that is a challenge. Those guys that are trying to really do the intensive grazing, they struggle with being able to have you know, the cows with the right bull, or you know, how many bulls do they have to have to try to keep that set of cows, the right number of moves through the forages. And with that, I would say that, you know, your commercial guys that have a lot more freedom of what they're doing, you'll see a lot more of the intensive grazing on those style of operations, the guys that with purebred cattle, they seem to be doing a lot more AI work if they're going to try to do that intensive grazing.

Shaye Koester  12:00

Okay, well, thank you for sharing that. So we've kind of talked about the fescue part, but earlier in the show you brought to light, how other parts of Missouri are a lot drier, compared to say your northern part. So what are some of those grazing challenges? You see, obviously, if it's drier, you're going to have lower forage production, etc. But on the rotational grazing side, you know, how is that being implemented in those drier, more arid environments.

Wes Chism  12:30

So when you get kind of like the South Central, Southwest, Missouri, those parts of the world, your carrying capacity goes down a lot more. So your ability to you know, turn those cows out, and mob graze is a little more challenging, because your paddocks are gonna have to be that much bigger. With those guys down there. And that's really, in all of my state, that's where I do probably the most intensive grazing work, those guys down there really adopted it, to try to get the best out of what they can. And they're really kind of on the forefront of stockpiling for fall and chasing some of those warm-season grasses and going back to the more native grasses as well that are adapted to that climate-adapted to those soil types. And it's really kind of interesting when those guys down there, like this year with the cost of fescue seed being what it is, those guys are actually combining a lot of fescue, and several of the seed companies in that part of the world. That's their big deal is that seed is native, it's from this part of the world. If you plant it, you know, it's acclimated and climatized, to where you're putting it.

Shaye Koester  13:40

Well, thank you for sharing that. So kind of looking at tools to make fencing easier. Are there is there anything specific that you recommend to, you know, take some ease off of if you are doing that temporary fence? What do you recommend there to make the fencing side of things easier if you're moving fence a lot and shifting pastures.

Wes Chism  14:02

So without a doubt, the number one thing is a geared reel. I mean, if you have a geared reel, it will save you hours of time. Whether you're just transporting your fence, or whether you're moving it constantly. I can't even imagine trying to operate without one. You know, a standard reel doesn't have that three-to-one gear ratio. I mean, it's a good tool, but man, it's a lot nicer being able to turn the wheel one time and make it turn three times.

Shaye Koester  14:34

Well, thank you for sharing that. So looking at you talked about how some producers manage, you know, making sure there are water sources as they move pastures, but what other solutions are you seeing there as far as maybe the most efficient method of moving water systems or making sure there are water systems as you rotationally graze on those more intensive units.

Wes Chism  14:57

So like I said, you know in the past It was a little more of that permanent setup. And I still think, you know, to some extent the water is still somewhat permanent and most people set up so no matter what they've changed to, or what if they've made any, you know, progression on their grazing systems. But we are seeing a lot more guys that are willing to, you know, pull water lines above ground and put out stock tanks with floats, and go that route to truly chase that grass the way it needs to be. And you see more of that than you ever did before. But they're still, I would still say, you know, of the water tanks that I sell, most of them are going into a permanent system. And guys are, you know, putting a water tank, and then building that grazing system around it.

Shaye Koester  15:45

So we've touched on the kind of some of the forage quality standpoint and shifting those plant communities through grazing, but what are some other benefits that your producers are seeing, or the people you work with are seeing as they implement rotational grazing?

Wes Chism  16:01

Oh, without a doubt, it's the bottom line, you know, you're maximizing your profits and trying to lower that overhead and lower that feed cost. I think that's the driver behind, you know, people that are doing more of it. And guys that are, you know, starting to get into it. I think it's all about, you know, the cost of production. And with everything that's went up here in the last couple of years, I mean, I think that's becoming more and more important. If you can lower your feed costs, if you can lower, you know, trips through the field with a tractor and a baler, just by stockpiling. I think that's really kind of shocked people, what kind of dollars I can save.

Shaye Koester  16:44

Alright, well, Wes, is there anything else you'd like to share or ad just mentioned to the audience, you know, any last thoughts?

Wes Chism  16:54

Yeah, as far as grazing goes, like we've talked, I mean, you know, you need to do what works best for you. But I just, you know, suggest anybody just try it. I mean, get out there. It's not rocket science. There's all kinds of information out there, you know, available on the internet. You can go to the Gallagher's website, we've got a lot of good articles there. You can find your local rep, and they would be more than happy to help you set up a system and talk to you about it, but just you know, get out there and try it.

Shaye Koester  17:22

Alrighty, well, thank you for being on the show today. I appreciate you. sharing all your insight, knowledge and experience with the audience today.

Wes Chism  17:31

No, thank you guys for having us.

Shaye Koester  17:33

And that's a wrap on that one. Be sure to let me know your thoughts on the episode and if you have any further questions around the topic, take care and have a great day.